INTERVIEW WITH ENRICO BERTELLI
Livorno, 8 April 20

Where did the idea come from?

This is a difficult question; an idea is with you from the beginning, in my case it is never at the base of a single work or a series of works, it is a vision of life, an affirmation of existence and fundamentally an out look on reality. However, if you want to know how I work I follow my intuition, (like an unknown road) and I work towards making it a reality by experimenting with various materials that I feel could be what I need to reach my goal. During this process, there are many things that could happen that could make me turn back or make me rethink certain aspects of my work, and it is often the waste and scraps produced during this process that actually end up being the final product.
– Do you have a favourite theme? If you have, are you also open to other themes?
Rather than a favourite theme, I’d call it a basic idea, more of an atmosphere that I want to achieve. After many years, I have realised that there has been a thread running through my work, that perhaps could be called a theme: going against the obvious, against arrogance, I try to create something that has this sense of incompleteness, of imperfection precisely to develop this train of thought.

– Are there any themes you would never address?
You can deal with all sorts of themes. I never exclude anything. I am however, not particularly interested in current affairs and politics. I have the feeling that I am a ‘political’ artist in an undateable era.
– What are the sources (example; newspaper, personal experiences, internet) of your inspiration?
In my opinion the word ‘inspiration’ is debatable. It does not derive from different sources but from thought, from continuous reflection, from day to day happenings, from things in the past and mistakes you have made. Everything can be a motive for reflection. When your life coincides with your work, with everything you do, every thought of the day could be a catalyst. I believe that an artist has the continuous need to communicate. Inspiration can come from anything that has to do with life; the people you meet and your travels.
– Is it always the idea that influences the material or the material that generates the idea?
You usually look for material to create something… but it is a bit of a circular process and sometimes you see material that suggests an idea to you.
– If the work is commissioned, can the buyer suggest or decide the theme or material?
– My way of working does not really suit commissions. When someone commissions a piece of work… I don’t know; a theme, a colour or something else, it’s because they want to partake in the creation… and this is the vanity of the person paying which I believe artists put up with unwillingly in most cases. I have accepted commissions but in my opinion the results were not always among the best. However, when the commission involves working in spaces with strong connotations such as the church of Luogo Pio in Livorno and La Fondation Suisse in Paris, it is very interesting because the limitations of such structures create a challenge and an additional stimulus.
– How to you go from the first phase to the realisation of a piece of work?
I’m not actually that aware of the process, I do a whole lot of work that leaves bits of waste and pieces of debris … and at times these become interesting works in themselves.
– Is there a phase of preparation before the start of a piece of work? Do you make sketches, draw, take photos, videos, make models etc… or do you work from a mental image without having to use any kind of additional help?
My work isn’t planned out so therefore there is no preparatory stage… in fact; everything I do is a preparation.
– How does the initial project relation itself with the final work?
As I explained before, there are many things that can happen during the process that can cause unforeseen changes, and the final result can sometimes be totally different from what it started out as.
– Does your work change as it is in progress?
Of course, it happens nearly all the time.
-Do you create your works single-handedly or do you make use of assistants or others? If so, do you delegate specific tasks that are beyond your abilities or because you think the conception stage is more important.
I do mostly everything, within the limits of my ability however I might use the help of people with different skills to mine to do things I am unable to do or that require specific tools.
C) Conclusion of work
(The artist decides the work is finished, ready for exhibiting or selling).
Types of questions:
– When do you think your work is finished?
It’s difficult to say, there are no rules, even now I’m not sure if some of my works are actually finished… it’s natural because a piece of work is something that you look at over and over again and you think about it even years later.
– Do you look for completion or can your work stop before this stage?
My work must always appear unfinished.
– Are you more interested in the planning/creation of your work or the final piece?
In the creation of my future works, in the sense of a journey of life.
– Is the goal of your work to sell/exhibit or to realise an idea?
There is no final goal… being an artist is a condition. The relationship with other artists, gallery owners, collectors, the market, money… and also you own pieces of so called ‘finished’ work are an accessory… important, but only an accessory.
– What techniques do you use?
A bit of everything, I don’t have any limits, I’ve never used oils but I could one day in the future.
– How do you apply your technique?
It depends on what I’m doing.
– Do favour a particular technique?
No, I’ve used many throughout the years.
– Is the use of a particular technique linked to a particular meaning?
Not really, the technique is a way of doing something. I use various techniques because I get bored easily. My personality stays the same, whatever I use, I’m always myself.
– When you start to use a specific technique, do you stick to that one technique or do you use others?
I use different techniques together.
– When you create a piece of work do you use one technique or a mixture of techniques?
Mixed techniques.
– Have you created installations?
Yes.
– Why have you chosen this type of material for this group of work?
Some materials are more adapt for creating certain types of work. They have to lend themselves as much as possible to the idea I am trying to visualise.
– What do materials mean to you?
The material makes up a piece of work in itself…it contributes to the meaning, but I don’t see it as being definitive…it’s only the physical and visible part of one’s thinking.
-How important is the significance of materials in relation to the meaning behind all your work?
I think I am able to work with all kinds of material…therefore I’d say that other things are of more significance to me.

– What is more important, the visual aspect of the materials or other qualities (origin, symbolic meaning, durability or evanescence)?
I’m not interested in the symbolic meaning in itself, I believe other characteristics are more important, for example, if something is fragile, this is something that interests me very much.
– What value do you give the materials in themselves in relation to the meaning behind a piece of work?
Like I have already said, it has to make the idea behind the work tangible, and visible to those who look at it
-What difference is there between the materials you use for works inside or outside?
I have never done any work outside.
– Is it important for you to adapt materials to the exterior or interior?
It is something that needs to be looked at again and again.
– Do you use recycled material?
Yes. I like using material that has already been used for something else.
-Do you take used objects and use them in a certain way, distorting them?
Yes, of course. I think it is quite a common thing in contemporary art.
– Do you use material that is easy to get hold of?
Yes, a lot. I’m attracted to things that I can find in the shop downstairs… like tape, sticky paper-lining for draws and plastic table cloths etc…
– Does the cost of these things influence your choice?
It can, but I generally don’t worry about the cost and I have never actually used material that is very expensive anyway.
– Are you careful about the brand name of a product? (If you are, it is in relation to the price?)
No. I try to use what I need but I also like to make a virtue of imperfection.
– In the case of a buyer choosing the materials, is it he who pays for them or does he pay you when the work is complete?
Yes, it has happened and sometimes they pay for the material I need…but no one actually decides for me.
– What do you want to give the viewer? Tools to be able to understand the meaning behind your work?
This is a very important point for me. I want my work to speak for itself. I hate works that need underlying subtitles or need to be explained through other means of communication. My goal is to be able to communicate both the problematic, and complexity in a simple and direct way. At the base of my work lies the desire to demonstrate just how complex reality is, and it is through emphasising the neglected, unfinished and marginal aspects that I try to remove the main focus from the obvious. I don’t know if I provide the tools for understanding, I don’t see my work as being educational. Anyhow, I think I’m pretty understandable.

– Is the title of the work explanatory, does it add something; is it independent or does it contrast with the piece of work?
– No, it’s not explanatory, and neither does it contrast, the title goes with the piece of work, and has its own meaning, in this way, both title and work travel in parallel. I enjoy coming up with titles

Pavillion Suisse de la citè Universitaire,Paris

If I could be that guy instead of me!”

J’ai réflechi pendant deux jours au titre que Enrico Bertelli a choisi pour son exposition parisienne. Selon l’artiste il y avait un deuxième alternative : en effet il y a toujours une alternative !
Plus je réflechissais sur la première intuition, plus je m’apercevais (comprenais) de comment la phrase était simplement correcte. Une phrase tirée du texte d’une chanson des Eels, “That Look You Give That Guy”.
Mis a part le renvoi musical, ce titre tombe parfait juste en référence avec la recherche que Enrico mène depuis des années et notamment pour une exposition logée (reçue) à la Fondation Suisse : le rappel à “cet garçon” ne peut qu’ être Le Corbusier. Bien que la Fondation Suisse puisse apparaître un “musée qui consacre”, son identité est surtout, depuis son édification au début des années Trente, celle d’un lieu où l’on habite.
Comme toujours dans le parcours artistique de Enrico Bertelli, le protagoniste de sa recherche créative semble-t-il être, encore une fois dans cette fascinante location, l’échange minimale, le remplacement essentiel, l’illusion quotidienne d’une vision et, par conséquent, d’une différente histoire.
La période hypothétique (du duxième degré) est nécesessaire (fondamentale) quand on veut parler du travail de Enrico Bertelli. Dans ce cas-là il s’agit de la possibilité hypothétique (mais réelle) de se remplacer avec un grand maître, un grand architecte et non seulement.
Enrico Bertelli essaie de montrer, même ici, la possibilité d’une élimination visuelle, d’une erreur apparente de perception. A travers ses interventions dans les endroits de la Fondation Suisse, il choisit de créer des anomalies visuelles minimales, des petits malentendus apparents d’un espace réel, que constitue l’espace (milieu) architectural signé par “cet garçon”. On veut établir un dialogue, un besoin de comparaison qui est declaré et geré par l’artiste toscan comme si c’était un dérangement amusant, jamais irrévérencieux.
L’espace originaire du Salon Corbu se transforme, de manière minimale, par l’utilisitation des rubans adhésifs noirs étendus et collés, apparentement sans attention, au sol et aux vitres d’un des parois intérieurs en verre. Il ne s’agit pas des empaquetages (emballages) ou bien de montages inoffensifs comme le matériel et son emploi quotidien pourrait faire envisager (penser) mais plutôt des lignes de sens (qui portent une signification) que, comme des touches sûres et contractées, dessinent (tracent) une possibilité autre (différente) par rapport à la vision du réel et de son espace.
Tout cela apparaît clair dans le “jeu” que Enrico Bertelli réussit à créer sur le vitre de la fenêtre de la chambre à coucher (où l’exposition poursuit), que dialogue presque par hazard (paradoxe d’un hazard fortement voulu) avec l’édification visuelle des couleurs intérieures sur l’extérieur, pensée par Le Corbusier.
Il parait d’assister à la première phase d’une intervention d’art (à laquelle doit suivre la partie finale), à un projet d’une intention, que l’artiste n’a pas voulu continuer ni conclure. Mais la tâche de comprendre la solution, et le caractère exhaustif du régard sur l’oeuvre, est laissée au spectateur.
Enrico Bertelli a, depuis toujours, déconcerté (désorienté) avec un “jeu des cartes” rapide et amusant l’attente du spectateur devant ses oeuvres : depuis la série des photographies ratées et éliminées en phase de développement, aux déchets des toiles peintes, à les résines tachées, à les compositions (mélanges) des confettis. Le protagoniste de la mise en scène artistique est l’erreur, l’objet d’habitude non éclairé, caché, dissimulé, indifférent (pas important) aux nos yeux. Je me souviens (ça me vient à la tête) d’un vers parfait d’une autre chanson, italienne cette fois-ci, que parlait “d’un instant phographié et de celui perdu sans savoir comment ça aurait été sa photographie”. Ce dernier est bien cherché, vu et trouvé par Enrico Bertelli.

Paola Noè